Wednesday, March 29, 2006

The Duke Lacrosse Fiasco

These are dark days for the Duke University athletic department. Let's forget about performance on the field and the courts. Several lacrosse players have been accused of a host of crimes, the worst of which include rape and assault, against exotic dancers hired to work a party hosted by much of the lax team. To make matters worse, there is a racial dynamic that plays a major role in the case. If you are unfamiliar with the story as it has played out so far, go here and here.


The Thunderstick is a Duke alum and a former Blue Devil athlete. Here is his take:


Of course, the Duke stuff is big news. I hate the lacrosse guys. When I was at Duke they were your standard lacrosse players, but I think they've gotten [. . .] worse. When we go down every year for a football game, we see them because for every football game they show up dressed in leather and all this S&M gear. It's really fucked up. The first time we were down there, a bunch of them [. . .] were bombed [and] came by our tailgate and tried to steal our beer. So I'm not shocked to see those assholes do something like this. At least it seems the general consensus is that the university is handling this well by letting the investigation take its [course] before deciding on the guilt of the students, which I think you have to do, but they pretty much suspended the lax season to send a strong message that even if this didn't happen, the behavior that led to this even becoming a possibility isn't acceptable and deserves serious repercussions. The flip side of this is that now we get bombarded with the annoying fembots that are going to be a huge pain in the ass and won't be happy unless the [blood of the] people that did this [. . .] is spilled. One of those women was on the Abrams report or something and she said she was appalled by the university's response and the guy said "they've pretty much cancelled the lax season and are waiting for the investigation to take place--what more do you want them to do?" and she couldn't offer [anything] and just babbled for another 4 minutes about how there's not enough awareness about sexual offenses. Those people drive me nuts as well. I guess I'm always one of these people that says let the investigation take place and then kick whoever is guilty out of school and send them to jail for a long, long time, but don't sit there screaming about punishing people when you don't know what went on yet.

While I might quibble with a few of his points, I think TS is spot-on in terms of how he addresses the major issue.


First off, let me be clear -- I know it may not be fair, but I have never quite understood the inflated sense of self-esteem that the vast majority of lacrosse players on elite college campuses (pretty much the only places it is played collegiately) seem to possess. Lacrosse has always struck me as affirmative action for affluent white kids from the suburbs of Mid-Atlantic States. They are the best spring athletes who don't play baseball, run track, or in some states play soccer, that money can buy. (Lacrosse is largely -- overwhelmingly -- a prep-school sport.) There is nothing wrong with any of this, per se, except that in coming from this cloistered world, many college lacrosse players do have an inflated sense of both entitlement and their own self worth.


I also tend to agree with TS about the rush to judgment and the outrage that some people are expressing that something isn't being done RIGHT NOW. It seems that some people are pretty selective in their concern for fundamental rights, such as due process. Whatever my criticisms of lacrosse, I do not believe that the vast majority of them would ever engage in felonious activities. Most are not racists or rapists. Yet those who want to accelerate a process that in reality has moved at an incredibly fast pace, apparently want to tarnish everyone affiliated with Duke lacrosse. Every white player in the program -- and there is only one black player (let that one sink in if you deny my characterization of the demographics of lacrosse -- 46 of the 47 members of the Duke men's program are white) has already taken a DNA test. Even the most extreme allegations only point to the involvement of a handful of players. It is one thing to be upset, and to recognize that even on college campuses we have much work to do with regard to matters of race and sex; it is quite another to vent your righteous outrage simply because you can. Duke is pretty much a bastion of liberalism and in some cases radicalism. It is pretty hard to take someone seriously who tries to argue that the leaders of the institution are somehow retrograde. This speaks to the larger sense of priviledge at a place like Duke -- an out of touch sense of where life on an elite campus fits into the larger world, a mindset to which in many ways the lacrosse team also fell victim.


Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of all of this is the racial dynamic. In the world of liberal elite privilege, these things are not supposed to happen. The fact that the victims were black and had been picked out by the guys who threw the party, the rampant use of racial epithets, the violence that ensued -- this is maybe most alarming of all. And it should remind us of how far we still have to go with regard to race in America. Furthermore, those unfamiliar with the Duke demographic should be wary of sloughing this off as merely retrograde behavior by southern students. Duke is in the South; it is not of the South. In other words, Duke is a school in the South. It is not a Southern school. In fact, the university's makeup is pretty close to that of most lacrosse teams, but with more consciously honed racial diversity. Once the bombast fades and the righteous vent their spleens, the university community will have a lot of questions to answer. But Duke is certainly not alone -- this event happened at Duke; it likely could have occurred just about anyplace.

75 comments:

JMT said...

Yup! Well said!

dcat said...

Thanks.

I should add that I feel for all of the athletes at Duke who have done nothing wrong but upon whom scrutiny will fall -- I was a college athlete myself and know that the dumb jock generalization is pervasive in the best of circumstances; I feel for all of the students whose lives will be disrupted by the media frenzy when they just want to finish their semester on the bucolic and beautiful Duke campus. there is a process, and it must be adhered to. people will go down, and Duke will emerge from it.

Anonymous said...

I had two sons play lacrosse through high school.

Perhaps it's the coald in the Northeast, but I always felt it was a good thing to give males a stick and let them bash the $#%^#% out of each other in a way that resulted in very few "real" injuries.

I was happy, however, that they both stopped playing before they could be corrupted by the college lacrosse universe . . .

I think, though, that this is particular incident is a manifestation of the Cameron Crazy ethos that oozes out of Duke.

Dukies think the world revolves around them and their sense of entitlement is stunning . . . they even think their shit don't stink!

Anonymous said...

Much of the media and blogger coverage surrounding this issue deals with stereotypes. Maybe people like Anonymous should pay more attention to the stereotypes that are being thrown around from every side of the story. What if people actually did what everyone seems to be writing and talking about - waiting to find someone or something to blame until charges are filed and all the facts have been brought to light? I'm certainly not trying to defend the lacrosse players, but I am trying to protect the countless other Duke students who had absolutely nothing to do with this.

dcat said...

At the risk of tooting my own horn, my call for reason and against a rush to judgment seems more and more sound with each passing bit of evidence that we get that the initial story was not quite how things went down.

dcat

Anonymous said...

"The initial story was not quite how things went down?" You mean, it omitted the part about killing and skinning?

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately everybody in this story is guilty of wrong doing. I think someone in Durham must have made a bargain with the devil for every soul there.

Anonymous said...

are we not still in america?at this stage there are only allegations. why all the whining about the silence of the players? might they not be indicted as accomplices or abettors? why should they talk now-because some talking heads say it is the"moral" thing to do? why would one of the girls leave and then return to the party? if guilty cut their nuts off but do not let the nuts get off by unfounded allegations.

Anonymous said...

i think that this lax situation is really unfortunate for duke university, for the lax players not involved, and also for durham city itself. two things that really caught me up in the situation was the race side of the problem. that girl, who attends nc central univ. is sketch. she has like 3 kids and is an erotic dancer. nccu is a horrible school to go to (i could have gotten into it when i was in 8th grade. seriously.) i feel like ppl are focusing on the race issue too much and it's amplified w/ nccu being a historically black college. also the alarming email that was sent by mcfadyen. that email was filled with such hateful and violent words. it's amazing how ppl can act when they think they will never be caught...

one last thing i'd like to add about durham city itself..i actually live in durham and i dont appreciate how the national tv stations like cbs have labeled durham as a small, poor, black-dominated place w/ lots of crime. yes, durham does have crime (what city doesnt?), BUT, durham has a population of about 210,000 and is very diverse. where i live is very safe, urban, upper-middle class, and you would never notice the gang violence that durham is known for. i'm still in high school and it's a/b 50% white, 45% black. there is violence at our school, but i NEVER notice it; it is only noticed by those involved i.e. gang members etc. i really hate the stereotypes that ignorant ppl and media have on durham; it's a great city.

Anonymous said...

SUPRISE SUPRISE....NONE OF THE DNA MATCHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just another 'Tawanna Brawley' type who probably banged out a few of her home-boys before she went there, and tried to pin it on the affluent white Lacrosse guys. So pathetic, yet so predictable. Just another black chick tryin to make a quick buck off the white guy.

Anonymous said...

And in case you forgot about the infamous Tawanna Brawley HOAX:
She was the pig who blamed White cops for writing 'nigger' on her w/ human feces.

SAME EXACT THING HERE.

dcat said...

OK, Folks -- lots of people have been commenting on this post, most of whom have come from several websites that have linked the piece. I am glad you are here, but let's learn or recall a few ground rules -- first off, let's be very wary of the terms we use. I am, first and foremost, a civil rights historian. Some of the latest emails have had an edge to them that I would like to nip in the bud. Comment all you would like. But keep it above board. Don't use the fact that we've loosened the restrictions on comments as an opportunity to act like a jackass.

Second, I think that if anything, events from today have vindicated the idea of following process that we advocated from the getgo here at dcat. I'm not so certain I'd be celebrating if I were a Duke lacrosse player, fan, supporter or what have you. This is good news, but that the ultimate act did not happen does not mean that they were just playing pin the tail on the donkey and enjoying punch and pie in that house.

Third, we are hardly out of the racial woods. If anything, this is the time when things might get ugly -- if the last few posts are any indication, that anger that could fuel something worse will come from both sides.

Keep watching -- this story has not yet taken its final twist.

dcat

Anonymous said...

While today's release of DNA test results apparently absolve the Duke players of Rape (Mind you, it is not just that the DNA did not match. There was no DNA evidence that the accuser had sex with anyone recently), I think that this is just the wind down of a very sad story, marked buy a series of events that expose a great deal of modern societies ills.

1. The players-It is not like they were having playing tiddlewinks at this party. How wrong was their behavior before rape even came into the picture.
2. The accuser. I really think this is just an example of someone making up a horrible story for attention, spite, and lack of moral character. If the allegations are indeed false (and I believe they are) how can she live with herself after permanently staining permanently the reputation of these kids?
3. The community. How quick were they to rush to judgement?
4. The media. This story was overly sensationalized to the point that it partially caused the community uproar.

dcat said...

One of the problems with anonymous comments, beyond the prospect for abuse, is that when you have several different anonymous posts, they become difficult to differentiate. However, I think this last comment echoes some of the things I have been conveying and lays out where the inquiry is now. I tend to wonder if something bad did not happen at that party still, even if sex was not involved. But the other possibility is more and more real -- that for a host of reasons, this woman saw opportunity and she went forward with it. I bet a lot of kids in the last four years are glad that they chose Georgetown, or wherever, over Duke.

dcat

Anonymous said...

whatever your personal feelings are about the lacrosse team,the fact is the lack of DNA exonerates the team and proves that the acuser is nothing but a liar and a wh--e

Anonymous said...

For myself, this proves that the old "innocent until proven guilty" still has a lot of mileage. No matter how horrible the accusation, it does not carry the weight of proof and truth. We have to avoid getting swept up in the emotional floodtide that has lead to a general assumption that the events unfolded exactly as alleged.
The same, however, must be said of the accuser. At present, we don't know anything other than that there was no evidence which connected the lacrosse team to the alleged crime.

I don't know what happened in that house.

I don't think anyone outside a circle of perhaps ten people actually witnessed what happened, if that many. The rest of the team is going on what they were told by teammates, the authorities are going on what the alleged victim told them, and the media is writing the same story over and over depending on thier viewpoint.

We may never know the whole truth, but the case will ultimately be resolved on, and only on, what can be proved. Like it or not, the system and the players attorneys will make sure of that.

dcat said...

let's be careful about what the dna evidence does and does not prove. It seems to prove that the rape charges are specious. It does not do a thing to prove or disprove any other attack, and groping, or use of racial epithets. It does not disprove that there may have been underage drinking going on. It does not prove or disprove whether or not the team had hired an exotic dancer.

I'm also pretty certain that it does not prove or disprove whether or not the accuser is a whore, though the signs point to it proving that she may be a liar.

And I agree with the most recent comments that the system so far has worked, although again, I think we have a long way to go. Surely the system has thus far worked but with serious flaws -- an overaggressive DA who saw in this case his star ascending, the very public nature of the allegations, the students calling for the lacrosse team's head.

My own feelings about the lacrosse team actually fit into a context --I have no feelings one way or the other for Duke lacrosse. I do have feelings about a pervasive culture of priviledge that to me so many college lacrosse teams embody.

Anonymous said...

Most likely the two ladies went to the party and tried to scam (taking money and not dancing) and as they were leaving, the players became extremely agitated and screamed racial remarks (neighbor claims to have seen this). The two ladies were enraged and went back to the party with the plan of somehow getting them back. I can't think of any reason why a person would leave a party, have racial slurs tossed at them, and agree to go back into the party.

dcat said...

I'm uncomfortable with speculation at this point, truth be told. Yours is surely a plausible scenario. there are literally dozens of others. But without evidence, we simply do not yet know what went on inside (and immediately outside) of that house.

I'm curious why the DA refuses to concede anything at this point. There are two (more, of course) distinct possibilities -- that he is grandstanding for the cameras and for the Durham electorate, or that there is evidence that we do not yet know.

If I had to guess, I suspect that he refuses to let this go completely, and there will be a series of lesser offenses intended to keep the DA in the news, to punish legitimate violations, and possibly to appease the community. But as I've said here before, this still has yet to play out, and we may as well let it do so.

dcat

Thunderstick said...

I'd be very interested to hear what the anonymous poster who lives in Durham sees as the view of the Durham community towards Duke. I am a Duke alum and I've been very happy about the way the university has handled this situation. I think universities in this situation usually fall one of two ways--doing nothing or very little and appeasing the athletes and thus fostering the elitism culture of athletes on campus (see Bowden, Bobby; when Peter Warrick was caught shoplifting and only suspended a game or Calhoun, Jim; for only suspending Marcus Williams for stealing laptops from fellow students for a semester and having him back by Big East play while a lesser player was completely kicked off). Or the universities side with the people that assume guilt as soon as an allegation is leveled only because those people don't like the kids being accused because they are white/rich/athletes/etc--they are usually the ones yelling loudest in situations like this. I think Duke has done a good job here. I've seen the lax lifestyle first person at Duke and I think that the cancellation of the season was a just punishment for the combined offenses of having a party with underage drinking, screaming racial slurs, the vile email that was sent by one players and for having a party where strippers were hired in the first place. These are kids that were ranked second in the country and who I'm sure lax means an awful lot to and I like that Duke was willing to just look at those infractions that can be proven and lay down a harsh punishment to say what happened is unacceptable and the behavior and mentality that led to it will no longer be tolerated, but they haven't taken the drastic step of killing the program or revoking scholarships yet and presumably won't do so until the facts about the more serious allegations are known.

I am interested to see what happens from this point on--as dcat said there are dozens of potential explanations as to what happened here and why the people involed in this, from the players all the way to the DA, are doing what they are doing. Chances are that your personal feelings about who is/isn't telling the truth is slanted towards your opinions of lax players, strippers, kids at a school like Duke, lawyers, etc. The only thing that has really irked me is the DA--I don't know what he knows or doesn't know, but to me the responsible thing here would be to have said that they will wait until the evidence is in to make a decision. By saying that he believes something happened, that alone convinces people that something happened. This, I think, is irresponsible because if the evidence shows nothing happened or doesn't support a rape charge, he's created the impression that something happened but they can't prove it and that could lead to a lot of anger in the community. The responsible thing to me would have been to wait until he saw all the evidence before claiming what he did and didn't think happen so if it didn't support rape he could say just that, but he can't say that now because he'll look like an idiot when he is months from possible re-election. So most likely he's going to say "I believe something happened, but we can't prove it" and that's just going to worsen the relationship between Duke and Durham.

The big thing, as a Duke alum, I'm looking for at this point is from the school to follow through on this. There's been this underlying divide between Duke and the surrounding community for as long as I've known and it's been ignored by both sides. Whether something happened or not here, this has brought to the forefront what the issues are between Duke and Durham and regardless of how the rape case turns out, I hope both Duke, NCCU and Durham grab this opportunity to address and better some of the issues between them.

Anonymous said...

personally,i think you cant judge these boys considering you dont even know them.. yes the way they acted was inappropriate but what college boy doesnt party and have to much to drink? They were the ones who got caught thats all.... too bad the dna came back negitive, and no one raped her... she was just scared of being arrested again, considering she was on probation.. she pleaded rape because she didnt want her children taken away... one girls lie can ruin 46 guys reputation

dcat said...

First, I have written an update on the main page of the blog:

http://dcatblog.blogspot.com

Second -- of course we can judge based on the facts we have. Not only is "knowing the boys" irrelevant, it might be the siungularly worst way to make a judgment. We make decisions as grownups all the time based on knowing circumstances, not on knowing people. We all have political opinions, for example, about people we will never know; we all judge books, movies, cds, television shows, and athletes independent of whether we know them or not, because ultimately we are passing judgment on products or actions, and not on some namby pamby capacity to look into someone's soul. These kids may well be good kids, at least some of them. That does not mean that they should not be punished if they committed wrongful deeds.

Furthermore, sure, everyone drinks in college. And that has almost nothing to do with any of this. Most people who do drink don't hire strippers, use racial epithets, and put themselves in positions to be accused of rape and assault.

Finally, I love how in one fell swoop in this last comment we go from chastising us for passing judgment on people we do not know to passing judgment on people anonymous does not know. Suddenly anonymous knows the motivations in the heart of the victim? Really? Or do standards only maintain for your side?

Actually I am pleased with how much restraint I am showing over what, in all, was a monumentally stupid comment.

Anonymous said...

Not to sound politically incorrect, but what if this woman went to the house and didn't get paid.
I know dancers(and I am in the buis) and I hope this girl was not the 90% who was either a druggy or hooker, and if she was raped justice needs to be served.
Yes, some of these guys seem like a-holes but please don't pre judge

Anonymous said...

The Smoking Gun has the affidavit with some compelling statements.

Also, I am curious no one here has considered condom use as being able to prevent the transfer of lax DNA material to the woman.

Anonymous said...

The media and a number of your posts suggest that the lack of DNA doesn't mean the woman wasn't raped or somehow abused. But I think (I could be wrong) DNA can be transferred by skin, saliva, etc., so the fact that none was found makes it more likely there was no contact. And lack of DNA under the victim's fingernails strikes me as sigficant. Second, I keep hearing the woman worked for an "Escort Agency," which means she probably is a prostitute, no?

Anonymous said...

I'm pleased to read that others see similarities to the Tawanna Brawley fiasco of several years ago. These students have already been tried and convicted by the liberal press bowing to the "politically correct" supressed minorities. Hopefully, the facts will reveal which side prevails.

Anonymous said...

Well said, the last comment says it all. The liberal media continues to bow down to minorities and in doing so ruined the lives of three innocent Duke lacrosse players. It is a shame and this fiascao and hoax truly proves how liberals continusosly hurt America. I can't even imagine how wonderful this country would be liberal free. My question is will the same media oulets who crucified the players in the initial weeks apologize when it 100 percent comes out that this is Tawana Bradley take two? I hope so, what about the liberal Duke professors (AKA lazy tenured professors who don't contribute much to society and don't have real jobs) who lynched the kids in literature and on radio? Will they apologize? They should! I hope the accueser/liar goes to jail for a long time after it comes out she is lying. She won't, she will continue attending NCCU on a scholarship from Jesse Jackson (I guess it's the Lying Scholarship) and may no longer have to strip, and frequently buy and sell drugs to pay for her education.

dcat said...

Wow --
I might have to retire any awards for stupid comments. This one seems to take the cake. Let us parse it, shall we?

"The liberal media continues to bow down to minorities and in doing so ruined the lives of three innocent Duke lacrosse players."

So this is the media's fault? Is it me, or was this not clearly a case where the media reported a story that was brewing largely because of overzealous prosecution by Nifong? I mean, I do not want tolet facts get in the way of a good tirade, but how does any sentient being blame the media for this? And how is this a matter of the liberal media? Duid the Washington Times, say, not also cover this story? And are you really such a fucking nitwith that you are going to claim that the Washington Times is liberal?


"It is a shame and this fiascao and hoax truly proves how liberals continusosly hurt America. I can't even imagine how wonderful this country would be liberal free."

Yes, here is our solution -- from a conservative, natch -- we need a pogrom of liberals in this country! No evidence, of course. None. Just an assertion from a source as respected as "Anonymous." Nice balls there, tough guy.

"My question is will the same media oulets who crucified the players in the initial weeks apologize when it 100 percent comes out that this is Tawana Bradley take two?"

I'd love to know, again, how this is the media's fault. How did the media crucify these guys? The media had a story driven by an overzealous prosecutor and ran with it. Let us not make the Duke lacrosse guys out to be naifs. They had strippers at a party where uinderage kids were drinking alcohol. Now we can debate about alcohol laws being stupid -- they are. But these kids nonetheless were bertaking the law. Plus, what was the percentage of kids on that team that had faced legal troubles? Remind me again? This was not an implausible story for the media to follow. Period. If you want to cast blame, do so against Mike Nifong.

"I hope so, what about the liberal Duke professors (AKA lazy tenured professors who don't contribute much to society and don't have real jobs) who lynched the kids in literature and on radio? Will they apologize? They should!"

More stupidities: What, precisely, does it mean to say that these professors do not contribute anything to society? On whose measurement? Some anonymous pusbag on a blog comment site so brazen in his or her opinions that he or she won't give a name so that we can measure his or her credentials and contributions (one of which is not the ability to write beyond the level of a moron)? And how can you possibly know the work ethic of these professors? It is my experience that tenured professors tend to work as hard as anyone, often are the most productive (especially at a place such as Duke) and certainly contribute to society as much as most.

"I hope the accueser/liar goes to jail for a long time after it comes out she is lying. She won't, she will continue attending NCCU on a scholarship from Jesse Jackson (I guess it's the Lying Scholarship) and may no longer have to strip, and frequently buy and sell drugs to pay for her education."

So now we get more than a hint that Anonymous, beyong being a pussy, is also a racist. I agree -- she should be punished. Go to jaiol for a long time? I think she should pay whatever penalty the law prescribes for what she seems to have done. We should not try to give her a steeper sentence because of our personal feelings. What does Jesse Jackson and scholarships have to do with this? (The Lying Scholarship? That is what you bring to the table in terms of irony? What a douchebag.)

We get it -- you are full of vitriol, so you target the media, professors, and random black folks. But for better or for worse, this was a story. The DA, against whom I have spoken out several times, deserves the lion's share of the guilt after the false accuser. But let's not make the Duke lax guys out to be poor angels. This was still a program in some trouble, and for a nonrevenue dport, that is problematic. The guys whgo were accused deserve every opportunity to get their good names back. But you know what? Most of us know about the fact that the accusations appear to have been made up from the very media you taint. Rather than be an angry jackass, how about realizing that your stupid generalizations don't help, even if cloaked behind an anonymous shield.

Derek Catsam

Anonymous said...

Nifong should drop this case. He has no hard evidence, only conflicting stories. Why does he pursue it?

NIFONG'S CONFLICT OF INTEREST: HE HATES DUKE!

dcat said...

I agree. The case never should have been pursued, the evidence was sketchy to begin with, and while it is one thing for the media to follow a story badsed on what they know, it is quite another for the prosecutor to look at the evidence and decide based on politics and hatever issues he has to go forward with a case. It is professionally irresponsible at best.

dcat

Anonymous said...

dcat.

Your site is proof that, by definition, half of the population of the US has an IQ of less than 100.

Good Luck.

dcat said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dcat said...

Anonymous --
You might disagree with what I wrote (back in March, by the way) but I have no idea how or why this has anything to do with my intelligence, never mind my IQ. Your comment manages to be both substanceless and irredeemably dumb. Congratulations.

dcat

Anonymous said...

And and what percent of NCAA basketball players are white versus the general population? What exactly is your point when you point out that Duke Lacrosse had only one black player?

Pure sophistry . . .

dcat said...

First, there is a much larger percentage of white college basketball players than their are black lax players. So your argument there is flawed inasmuch as it is stupid. And given that race did play a role in this case (you noticed, right?) I would say that the fact that the Duke lacrosse team had only one black player would be germane.

I'm assuming you have not read my other postings on this issue? (And this goes for anyone still weighing in on this rather old post.) But at the time and given what we knew, my analysis made a certain amount of sense. Things changed and I recognized that as time passed, which anyone reading my other entries (or hell, even the comments section here) would notice.

I'm pretty certain you are not using the word "sophistry" correctly, but I've sort of come to expect as much from the people weighing in on this particular post more than a year after it was written. Oh -- and anonymlusly. Always anonymously.

dcat

Anonymous said...

sophistry: 1.Plausible but fallacious argumentation.
2. A plausible but misleading or fallacious argument. (American Heritage)

First, your implication that lacrosse is a rascist sport because only one Duke Lacrosse player was black IS fallacious, so I believe I used the word correctly.

Second, if we followed your logic, we would conclude that NCAA Basketball is a racist sport because whereas whites comprise roughly 65% of the US population, they are less than half the players represented on the actual basketball courts.

Or, are you willing to concede that most of the guys who WANT to play lacrosse are white, and most of the guys who WANT to play basketball are black? That doesn't sound racist to me.

Finally, the racism in this case lies with two people. Mike Nifong pandered to a predominately black community for re-election, and the black stripper made this a white/black issue by falsely accusing some white boys.

dcat said...

Anonymous --
Still hiding bravely behind the namelessness, I see. Rock on.

When did I call lacrosse racist (note spelling, English master)? I'll wait . . . I'll keep waiting . . . You back? You realize that I never said any such thing? Now who's engaging in sophistry?

But yes, it is problematic that an outdoor sport played overwhelmingly by prep school kids in one portion of the country is dominated by white players. It certainly does not pull the best athletes. But again -- neither here nor there. You now know that I never said lacrosse was a racist sport. So add "specious" to your list of words to look up.

Again -- if you read more than this one post from more than a year ago you would know that i have been more than harsh about Nifong -- I bet I've written more about him than you have, in fact, and have had the nutsack not to gripe anonymously at others.
Let's be careful of the "only racism" coming from Nifong and the stripper. No one has truly disavowed the assertions (not merely from the stripper) that some of the Duke lax guys used the N Bomb, and let's also not forget that some of the things that have been said after the fact by the defenders of the lax players (usually anonymous pusbags) have more than crossed the line.

Anonymous said...

From your original post:

"Lacrosse has always struck me as affirmative action for affluent white kids . . ."

and

" Every white player in the program -- and there is only one black player (let that one sink in if you deny my characterization of the demographics of lacrosse -- 46 of the 47 members of the Duke men's program are white)"

By pointing out the predominance of one race in a sport, what exactly ARE you implying about lacrosse? Any thinking person can read between the lines and see an implication of racism.

Again, if we follow your logic, we also have to condemn NCAA Basketball as "racist, since it's becoming a predominately black sport.

As to the "N bomb" being used by the players . . . pull up many pop rap songs, then let's start discussing the concept of hypocrisy . . .

Finally, why do you seem to think that lacrosse players feel more entitled than football or basketball players? Talk about a sense of entitlement, do you think every Florida Gator football player is held to the same academic standard as the rest of the school? At least NCAA Lacrosse has the highest graduation rate of any men's sport.

Anonymous said...

Also, I don't have goole account, but my name is Bobby, I'm from Atlanta, and I did play college lacrosse but now work for a major public U.S. corporation.

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Bobby --
It took you long enough, but that's a start.

Your logic is incredibly flawed. You have continued to make the -- not to put too fine a point on it, but really dumb -- analogy between lacrosse and basketball. But you miss the point of my argument, which is that lacrosse is simply not played by the best athletes because it does not draw from the pool of the best athletes and because of the cloistered world from which it comes, and yet on so many campus lax players walk around with an enormous superiority complex.

Basketball does, by the way, draw from those best athletes, as does football. Maybe you see a particular skill set that lacrosse brings to the table that would dissuade black players. That is, of course, hogwash. Lacrosse is a sport for a particular subset of athletes, and on every campus I have been, those athletes carry that sense of privilege with them. I will stand by that assertion. You are free to disagree, as you have. But dumb analogies between the racial demographics of basketball and those of lacrosse are not helping your argument.

As for the difference between a white person using the N-bomb against a black person and a black person appropriating that term themselves, you cannot possibly be daft enough not to grasp the historical and sociological difference. There is nothing hypocritical about appropriating a term for empowerment and using a term as an epithet. Or are you going to give us an insightful defense of why white folks ought to be able to call people that word? At least you are no longer denying that maybe the Duke situation is not without some lesser implications of racism from the white community.

The sense of entitlement of football players is a discussion I am more than willing to have. But your bringing it up is what we like to call a "red herring" as it has nothing to do with this discussion. Lacrosse players are no more or less entitled because other athletes are entitled as well.

As for graduation rates -- let's not pretend that the fact that lacrosse is heavily based at elite schools where the graduation rates are themselves high does not play a role. Oh -- and men's lacrose was second among men's sports in graduation rate, but only seventh overall, as women graduate at a higher rate almost across the board among athletes. Not that you'll see any gender role here . . . or any gender improprieties.

You seem like a reasonably sharp guy. But some of your arguments are defensive and shrill. I've said it about three dozen times now: the Duke lacrosse fiasco was a nightmare largely (though not exclusively) because of the irresponsibility of one prosecutor who put in place the conditions for a rush to judgment and who railroaded three young men who did not deserve it. Maybe you think that lacrosse players are beyond reproach. I don't happen to find any group of people beyond criticism.

In any case, did you not read the original post? I explicitly called for people to be wary of a rush to judgment. In your zeal to deny that there could possibly be an issue with the fact that lacrosse is an overwhelmingly white prep school sport, did you not bother reading the actual post that inspired this discussion? I get it -- lacrosse players in your world are unassailable. Fortunately, I do not live in your world.

dcat

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Samuel Zamora said...

Tyson Reinvents History
Last week, the N&O’s Peder Zane profiled Duke faculty member Tim Tyson’s efforts to examine the racial history of the South; the article revealed that “Pender and New Hanover counties District Attorney Benjamin R.sportsbook David’s mother signed up for the course last year, then convinced her son that the class would help his efforts to build trust across communities.” Given his race-based assumptions on the lacrosse case, the idea that Tyson is providing any intellectual assistance to any law enforcement official is—to put it mildly—troubling.march madnessSeveral people e-mailed Zane to note the contradiction between Tyson’s performance in the lacrosse case and his apparently newfound support for due process. Zane followed up with Tyson, and blogged on the matter yesterday.www.canadacasino.com

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